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Cleans & Deads


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#1 Ben

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 10:10 AM

Hey guys,

 

I'm hoping to get some insight from you smart people! As you may know, I want to : 

 

1. Do OMOB as prescribed, using no more than 5 lifts/days of training in one week. 

2. Train both the deadlift as well as the clean.

 

Currently, I set up my programming to do Front Squat, Bench, Clean/Deadlift, Military Press, Back Squat. I try to train two days in a row, and take the third off. I most often take a day off between Back Squat and Front Squat day. I have them together because I want to improve/focus on my squatting at the moment. The plan at the moment, is to alternate between deadlifts and cleans from one cycle to the next, because I like both, think both are very beneficial, and need to improve at both.  

 

I've been thinking about a different approach, which I know will break the mold that OMOB creates, but I'm hoping that since I only want to apply this to one day, I'll be forgiven.

 

I'm thinking, instead of alternating between deads and cleans each cycle, to do the main movement Cleans and the EMOM Deadlifts in cycle 1, and in cycle 2, do the main movement Deadlifts and the EMOM Cleans. That means I'll only increase each movement's weight once I've done it as the main movement(ie once every 2 cycles), and each will go up slower at a steadier pace, but I'll get to keep doing both on a more regular basis. 

 

What do you guys think? Does this approach make sense? Do you think it can work? 


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#2 VidaMD

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:09 PM

Hey man, I see no harm in that.  Give it a shot and see how you feel.  If you're not making progress, re-assess and make the change.  

 

My only caution - I quit doing Oly lifts for awhile and now I'm back.  I found that my bar speed and my speed has diminished greatly.  My point being that the full cleans take practice besides strength.  You may find benefit in adding clean pulls and cleans from a high hang position into your WOD's or conditioning to get more technique work.

 

Hope that helps and keep us posted.


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#3 Ben

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:40 PM

Hey man, I see no harm in that.  Give it a shot and see how you feel.  If you're not making progress, re-assess and make the change.  

 

My only caution - I quit doing Oly lifts for awhile and now I'm back.  I found that my bar speed and my speed has diminished greatly.  My point being that the full cleans take practice besides strength.  You may find benefit in adding clean pulls and cleans from a high hang position into your WOD's or conditioning to get more technique work.

 

Hope that helps and keep us posted.

Yay, that makes me happy! Thanks a million for the advice bud. I'll keep that in mind. I do actually have cleans in my WOD movement list that I use to construct my WODs. So I'll take your advice and keep them in there. 

 

I kinda want to compete in our local CF competitions, so I'm going to have to cover cleans as well as snatches in my programming somehow. I THINK I know how to include snatches currently, which I don't have a ton of experience with, but I'll put up an update on that on my log for what I've done today.



#4 VidaMD

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 03:59 PM

What Wendler suggests for Sn and Cln is to put them in front of your strength on upper days.

 

Example

 

On OHP day, do some type of Sn work first then OHP.  Same with Bench, clean and then bench.  Time may be an issue but something to work out.  Check out Outlaw Barbell, they do some really cool things with the Oly lifts that you could pick apart and put in your schedule.


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#5 Ben

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 04:09 PM

What Wendler suggests for Sn and Cln is to put them in front of your strength on upper days.

 

Example

 

On OHP day, do some type of Sn work first then OHP.  Same with Bench, clean and then bench.  Time may be an issue but something to work out.  Check out Outlaw Barbell, they do some really cool things with the Oly lifts that you could pick apart and put in your schedule.

Ah thanks!!! I remember reading about this in Wendler now that you mention it. Something I'll look into.



#6 danduerksen

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 05:22 PM

Hey Ben, sounds like we're thinking the same thing. I just started my first cycle of omob, didn't want to plan too many main lifts but wanted to get work on all of them. My plan also involves doing deads and cleans on the same day. I'll be doing the heavy work first, then either do a second emom set (same %) or add a ping pong set. Jerred actually programs these ping pong sets into the 1 barbell blaze program and it is killer. It's a 20:00 emom alternate between deads and cleans. All you have to do is figure out the weight percentages you want to work with. For example: first week 4x 60% clean weight (+ 90# for deads); second week 3x 70% clean (+90# for deads).

 

My plan is:

Deadlift/ power clean

Press

Bench

Squat/front squat

 

I'm applying the same idea to my squat day. Add a second emom set after the main lift. Alternate front squats and back squats each cycle. My theory is if the back squat gets stronger so will the front squat, and vice versa, so I don't need to do both. I'm not alternating deadlifts and cleans because I'm not too concerned about bring my clean weight up quickly. And I'm not doing full Olympic cleans either. Power snatch is part of my warm up and accessory/condition workouts.

 

Your methodology is sound. Sounds like you have a full understanding of the theory and how to apply it to your specific goals. Run it and see how you feel. Good luck.


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#7 Ben

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 03:51 AM

Hey Ben, sounds like we're thinking the same thing. I just started my first cycle of omob, didn't want to plan too many main lifts but wanted to get work on all of them. My plan also involves doing deads and cleans on the same day. I'll be doing the heavy work first, then either do a second emom set (same %) or add a ping pong set. Jerred actually programs these ping pong sets into the 1 barbell blaze program and it is killer. It's a 20:00 emom alternate between deads and cleans. All you have to do is figure out the weight percentages you want to work with. For example: first week 4x 60% clean weight (+ 90# for deads); second week 3x 70% clean (+90# for deads).

 

My plan is:

Deadlift/ power clean

Press

Bench

Squat/front squat

 

I'm applying the same idea to my squat day. Add a second emom set after the main lift. Alternate front squats and back squats each cycle. My theory is if the back squat gets stronger so will the front squat, and vice versa, so I don't need to do both. I'm not alternating deadlifts and cleans because I'm not too concerned about bring my clean weight up quickly. And I'm not doing full Olympic cleans either. Power snatch is part of my warm up and accessory/condition workouts.

 

Your methodology is sound. Sounds like you have a full understanding of the theory and how to apply it to your specific goals. Run it and see how you feel. Good luck.

Ah I'm glad to hear I'm not completely off the mark! This post has given me a few other ideas to think about, thanks for that bud. 

 

When you do those ping pong sets, do you first add all the weight you clean with plus a collar, and then just slap on the extra plates for deadlift in front of the collars and then rip them off before your next cleans-round?



#8 danduerksen

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 04:34 PM

Ah I'm glad to hear I'm not completely off the mark! This post has given me a few other ideas to think about, thanks for that bud. 

 

When you do those ping pong sets, do you first add all the weight you clean with plus a collar, and then just slap on the extra plates for deadlift in front of the collars and then rip them off before your next cleans-round?

Ye, pretty much. Not everyone is fortunate to have 2 barbells to use. Keep the reps manageable like 3-5 depending on weight so you're not sprinting to change plates. Deads might feel light at first, but they catch up to you. I liked cleans in the mid-heavy range. Also, helps if you have some kind of stand that will keep the plates slightly off the ground so sliding plates on and off isn't a pain in the ass.

 

Official description:

DEADLIFT / POWER CLEAN

Ping Pong - (Lighter weight. Move quickly.)

For 20 minutes:

Even minutes -- 3 deadlifts

Odd minutes -- 2 power cleans


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#9 UKoldguy

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 04:36 PM

 It's a 20:00 emom alternate between deads and cleans. All you have to do is figure out the weight percentages you want to work with. For example: first week 4x 60% clean weight (+ 90# for deads); second week 3x 70% clean (+90# for deads).

 

So is this 60% of your clean 1rm and then you add 90#/42.5Kg to the bar for the deadlifts ?

Pingpong ? is this a slang term for supersetting.. Dont judge me guys im of the older school here and these new fangled hiphopity words you younster come out with nowadays just makes me want to fart :)


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#10 Pops

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 08:14 PM

...and when you answer, make sure you type directly into his hearing aid.


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#11 danduerksen

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 09:44 PM

So is this 60% of your clean 1rm and then you add 90#/42.5Kg to the bar for the deadlifts ?

Pingpong ? is this a slang term for supersetting.. Dont judge me guys im of the older school here and these new fangled hiphopity words you younster come out with nowadays just makes me want to fart :)

First question. That is a good way to go about it. If I used 60% of my max clean I would put 110# on the bar, then add 90# for the deadlifts. Or I might add 140# for the deads. Depends how much time you want to spend changing plates between sets. I was always lucky to have a platform (see below) that kept the plates off the ground. There is no official formula so it's all up to how you feel like doing it.  

 

Second question. Ping pong is Jerred's term for alternating emom. Every odd minute is clean. Every even minute is deadlift. Or other way around if you're feeling frisky. So you have to be able to change plates and get back to set up in the remainder of the minute, is why less plates is better.

 

10153.jpg


"He who wants to succeed should learn how to fight, to strive and to suffer. You can acquire a lot in life if you are prepared to give up a lot to get it."

 

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#12 UKoldguy

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 03:04 PM

Thanks matey.. Can sleep now knowing I'm not going full Ranger stu... I mean retard.
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#13 Stu

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 03:13 PM

Very interesting. Above my head but good to see the science behind things.

 

I really need to venture out from the logs more often. plus, I miss a lot of love, and I'm all about the love !

 

Later you cheese dicks

 

Lee, sleep with one eye open :ph34r:


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#14 danduerksen

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 08:07 PM

It's just power cleans and deadlifts. Nothing above the head.

 

I guess you could do power snatch instead of cleans... then it would be above the head...

 

:o What if you did alternating emom deadlift-power clean-power snatch??? Fucking killer. Ping pong pain!  


"He who wants to succeed should learn how to fight, to strive and to suffer. You can acquire a lot in life if you are prepared to give up a lot to get it."

 

Practice the basics as if they were advanced. That's the key to advancing





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