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#21 Vector300

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 11:01 PM

Holy Sh!t Vector...did you smash some pre workout JUST before typing that? I can feel the energy coming at me through the words!

Interesting reading what the lads are on...seems fairly consistent across the board.

I start off with a multi (Optimum Nutrition) and some fish oil. I believe this combo helps keep me pretty healthy...coming up five years with my current employer and now sick days to date.

I have a preworkout, I run the Musclepharm assault. I'll only take this if I'm only lifting. If I have any conditioning or wod I'll avoid it..it's horrible in that application. Just makes my legs heavy. Good for squatting though. A tub will last me a while. But most days I'll just do black coffee. When I'm drinking my coffee I pretend I'm Jack Reacher.

I have the Musclepharm combat whey protein. Quite often I'll have two different flavours, just to keep me sane. To be fair, their chocolate is nasty, but pretty much every other flavour is epic. Love the Cinnamon Bun flavour. I use that in my overnight oats, and it's fricken beautiful. I'm using far less whey than I used to, prob one or two day compared to what I used to as a gym rat.

All this talk of bum gas, when I was at my heaviest a couple of years ago I was eating 8 whole eggs as my pre gym meal....lets just say that is was a fairly lethal time in my life for those around me.

I have creatine as well, Inner Armour. I don't bother loading this, and generally run it consistently. Possibly linked to reducing dementia, which is a plus. I find this to be a cheap supplement that lasts ages.

I also have some xtend aminos, which I take for the intense wod type actives.

What I've started taking recently, which isn't really a supplement as such, it's called EZ breathe. It's made by a local company and contains natural oils and menthol crystals...few drops on your tongue and BAM! A slap in the face with a wet fish. It instantly opens the airways and feels like before you were breathing with Dustoff's elevation mask. Company is Savvy Touch, the guy who makes it is effectively a horse physio. I've met him, top bloke and he is one hell of a machine..50 years old and looks like Rambo in his prime.

Seems the older I get the less I feel the importance for the 'add on' supplements. Love my eggs and oats, and making super smoothies with fruits (banana, apples, berries, mango, pineapple) avocado and spinach.

Like Vector I eat a bit of red meat, but much prefer the kiwi stuff over the Aussie stuff....its way more alpha...

Anything MusclePharm is V approved! I agree bout creatine loading being bogus...I'm just a gluten I suppose, lol. And no, Jumper I was wired from something else... Olympus Labs Conqu3r PWO is good to go too if anybody is interested in trying something new. It's intense. Going on 4 hours now and still feeling it.

Oh and btw - you can keep being an alpha. I'm the Omega mate!

#22 Amontgomery78th

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 03:53 AM

Damn,  I'm glad other people use the wal mart stuff.  I am always hesitant to use the stuff not knowing if they are worth the money even though they are cheap.  

 

I am still an herbalife distributor and love there products.  Problem is they are expensive.  So I could not keep up with it.  

 

I also have had bad experience with pre-work out stuff.  Ended up going to the hospital once because it dropped my blood pressure low while I was working out.  With that being said,  I am trying to figure out what supplements "might" work for me.  I am on a Blood Pressure Med, and take fish oil and CoQ10.  I drink coffee in the morning, and green tea for lunch pre-work out.  (my work out being right after lunch most days).    Any one have any suggestions or Ideas?


It is not a matter of if something bad happens.  That is living in denial that evil exists.  It is a matter of when something bad comes knocking at your door.  Will you be ready?

 

-Me

 

"The sheep pretend the wolf will never visit, but the sheep dog lives for that day."  

 

-Lt Col Dave Grossman


#23 DustoffDave

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 11:38 PM

Okay, here it is.  I chug 16 ounces of water-mixed ON Whey 100% protein (Costco) immediately upon waking up (which is within minutes of hitting The Forge).  Then I'll do another 16 ounces mixed with milk and heavy cream on the way to work and at dinner.  The rest of the time, I just try to get everything from my food.  Lots of hard-boiled eggs, tuna, and yams.  I don't drink coffee and I'll steal a Flintstones vitamin from my kids each night.

 

I've tried creatine and other stuff in the past, but I didn't see any real differences and have always been of the mind that if I can't build it naturally, I don't want it.  (That and being in the medical field amongst infantrymen and seeing soldiers destroy their kidneys by misusing a lot of this stuff...)


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#24 Vector300

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 03:08 AM

Okay, here it is. I chug 16 ounces of water-mixed ON Whey 100% protein (Costco) immediately upon waking up (which is within minutes of hitting The Forge). Then I'll do another 16 ounces mixed with milk and heavy cream on the way to work and at dinner. The rest of the time, I just try to get everything from my food. Lots of hard-boiled eggs, tuna, and yams. I don't drink coffee and I'll steal a Flintstones vitamin from my kids each night.

I've tried creatine and other stuff in the past, but I didn't see any real differences and have always been of the mind that if I can't build it naturally, I don't want it. (That and being in the medical field amongst infantrymen and seeing soldiers destroy their kidneys by misusing a lot of this stuff...)

DoD presents a good topic of discussion. I'm specifically talking about the mindset of: if I can't build it naturally, I don't want it.

Obviously I don't have to ask to keep this civil cause we have a good group here but let's hear some thoughts on this. I WAS of this mindset but the more research I've done and the more I've pushed myself the more I've come to a different conclusion. So what is natural? I am in no way advocating being a "juice monkey" as we say in jersey but...is farm raised eggs, dairy, and meat natural? What about protein powder? Or multivitamins, fish oil, and vaccinations? The way our ancestors ate is very different than today but that's not just the result of us moving away from those eating patterns. It's also from not having access the same types of food. Then we have things like genetic disposition. If you're disabled and there becomes available a magic pill that can restore your ability would you not take it because it's not "natural"? Of course that's a hypothetical. Perhaps a better example would be myself. Being a smaller guy I was offered the ability to have HGH as a teen to hopefully increase my height. I asked if there was a something wrong with me and the Dr. said nope you're just short. So I turned it down. There was no need for it. Just like there is no need for someone who's weak, underfed, and inexperienced to start pinning andro to get "jacked". They haven't earned that and it's a shortcut for their lack of will/discipline/constitution. But what about the elite level athlete? The one who's pulling 4-5x bodyweight before they even started taking protein powder? Do they earn the right? I think so. There comes a level, and ultimately its personal, where what's holding you back isn't your training, or diet, or recovery, mindset but your own genetic potential. What then? Do we just say well that was a fun run and wipe our hands clean? But, I'm not an elite level athlete, you say. True but that doesn't mean you don't train, and eat, and push yourself like one. A solider, cop, firefighter, EMT, father of two who walks down the wrong back alley at night against two guys twice his size are all people that have to occasionally go beyond the call. This is entirely subjective and mostly personal but I don't think that the argument of its not natural really works anymore because there is no clearly defined "natural". Why wouldnt you want a clear advantage in that situation? If those two men who want to mug and possibly harm that father of two were carrying knives and he has a gun is that an unfair advantage? Yep! And good one cause if you don't plan on walking out then you'll be carried out. The world doesn't care about the weak, there's enough of them. It favors the strong. I'm sure all you boys and girls who wear/wore cammies and boots will agree - who the hell wants to play fair? Now we all know who's taking what, PEDs are the worst kept secret. I mean come on, some dude trains a body part split and eats chicken and rice everyday and gets huge AND ripped...doesn't happen. Sure he may be genetically gifted but that's even pushing it. The argument I'm presenting is a desire for greater transparency. Both for accurate stat tracking and also for safety. That's the number one thing. We think oh, I wouldn't want to risk my health and lessen time with my family because of popping a pill for 10 min. abs may shut my kidneys down but if it was safe then what...? Ok I have more to add on about but I'm more curious what the tribe has to say. Plus I'm rambling.

#25 DustoffDave

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 03:19 PM

This is a great topic! First, I hope I didn't send the wrong message by my comment. I have no problem with people who use supplements, and I sure hope I didn't come across as holier than though in my statement. I have the utmost respect for everyone on here and would never want to say or do anything that would make you think otherwise.

I probably should have worded it better. For me, it's more about seeing how far I can get on my own, at this point. Done safely, supplements can be a great addition, but I'm not to the point where I feel like I need that boost. I'm not sure if I ever will be. I have some more thoughts too, but it's time to get to school.

There's no comfort in growth, and no growth in comfort.


#26 Vector300

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 05:12 PM

This is a great topic! First, I hope I didn't send the wrong message by my comment. I have no problem with people who use supplements, and I sure hope I didn't come across as holier than though in my statement. I have the utmost respect for everyone on here and would never want to say or do anything that would make you think otherwise.

I probably should have worded it better. For me, it's more about seeing how far I can get on my own, at this point. Done safely, supplements can be a great addition, but I'm not to the point where I feel like I need that boost. I'm not sure if I ever will be. I have some more thoughts too, but it's time to get to school.


No need to apologize DoD, you came across clear and professional. And I do agree with you in that supps should polish the sculpture not carve it. I do think it's both a gray area and one that's usually avoided in most discussions...so let's open the flood gates!
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#27 Stu

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 11:17 PM

Its funny , Ive had a thought rattling around in my head these past few days . I think it relates here . Here it is :

 

Thinking about how life , all of life , consumes life to live . Our seemingly obligatory inherited arrogance as human beings asking questions of who we are , where did we come from and where are we going , will never jive with our consumption . We can never grow past it . We are what we eat and I feel that life's ingredients are smoke and mirrors . Eat , drink and be merry !

 

Stu T philosophy 101 , LOL !


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Sua Sponte ! Now Get off my lawn ! :angry:

#28 Pops

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 04:45 AM

Dude, I don't know about the rest of ya'll but I just want to start taking whatever Stu was on when he wrote THAT!
Hey Stu, Bob Dylan called & he wants the lyrics to that song back. Rock on bro!
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"Do not go gentle into that good night,

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;

rage, rage against the dying of the light." - Dylan Thomas

 

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The next best time is now.

 

"Glory is not found in the destination, but rather in the pursuit." - A.J. Roberts


#29 Stu

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 01:24 PM

Dude, I don't know about the rest of ya'll but I just want to start taking whatever Stu was on when he wrote THAT!
Hey Stu, Bob Dylan called & he wants the lyrics to that song back. Rock on bro!

B)


Sua Sponte ! Now Get off my lawn ! :angry:

#30 Flying Pirate

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 03:23 PM

 I am currently cycling off the C4 and have been taking Legion's Pulse pre. What I like about it is there are no "Proprietary Blends", so you know exactly what you're putting in your body. I also take from Bulk Supplements: 90% Whey Isolate , BCAA's (when I intermittent fast) , Micronized Creatine, and L-Arginine.

 

Multivitamin, Vitamin D3 6000iu, & DHEA 100mg

ON BCAA for regular workouts

 

On squat & DL days I take Karbolyn, which whether or not is a placebo, seems to work.

 

And like Vector, I like lots of sex and red meat....and I have an Australian Shepard named Turbo who doesn't need Green Tea!



#31 VidaMD

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 04:21 PM

Interesting turn we've taking here.  Love it though as I have this debate no argument with myself ALOT.  To supp - or not to supp - that is the question.  I waffle all the time but bottom line for me is whatever gets you there.  What I mean is this, and its a struggle everyday to keep this mindset, if you want/need a supp to get your ass in the gym, do it.  Safe or not is debatable and I'm far from trusting the FDA to tell me what's safe.  For me personally suppz are the equivalent of lifting equipment, there are times to use it and times not to.  I really have no judgement what other people use, to each there own.  I do despise the Advocare, Isagenix, Plexus, etc marketing though.  A bit of a double standard maybe, but convincing people the only way to lose weight and feel better is to drink their shakes and crap -- ahhh - - I read the one dudes book from Isagenix, told people to drink distilled water.  Dumbest thing I've heard in awhile...Anyway, as the others have stated, eat well, drink and be merry.  I'll be putting in my request for sexual intercouse with the wife so it gets on the calendar :lol:


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#32 Amontgomery78th

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 08:02 AM

Supplements have always been a question with me all ow my life.  More so now, than earlier.  I'm looking to improve my self performance wise.  Blood pressure normal, faster, stronger, more endurance.  Not bulk up, or loose weight.  To me, focusing on performance will do the rest for me.  In the end though, I am looking to keep from hurting my self, and improving my self.  I want to do it naturally and get off of medication.  So far I have been a success, but I still want to do it right.

 

Sorry if this post seems all over the place.  I am at work writing it, working a double on turkey day and it is now 0300, or 3 am for those who don't know.  


It is not a matter of if something bad happens.  That is living in denial that evil exists.  It is a matter of when something bad comes knocking at your door.  Will you be ready?

 

-Me

 

"The sheep pretend the wolf will never visit, but the sheep dog lives for that day."  

 

-Lt Col Dave Grossman


#33 Vector300

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 01:04 AM

I think the consensus here is pretty much the same. There's ppl who workout and ppl who train. For those who train a fundemental question must be raised once they start making serious progress: do I push myself as far as I am naturally/genetically capable? Or do I push myself beyond that and start looking at supps that aren't sold on the shelf at your local GNC/Vitamin Shoppe? It's funny because when I was still training at a gym I had a couple ppl walk up and ask me what I was "on" and if I was "selling" or could get them some...needless to say it was usually around 9pm plus at night when the facility was abandoned except your hardcore devotees and trollz. Point is it pissed me off because at that moment I realized that no matter how hard I tried "naturally" (once again whatever that definition is) it would still be assumed I was taking something. Everyone knows of the rampant PEDs use in sports and it's somewhat accepted. As in - if they're stupid or careless enough to get caught when everyone else can pass a simple piss test then it's their own fault. So here I am thinking that if I somehow squat 5x my BW eating clean and drinking nothing but water ppl will still whisper that I'm taking roids... So I'm kinda like F em. It's my word and what matters to me. Because I'm already being judged and grouped by ppl who think my progress means chemical abuse. Personally as long as you're open bout it I could care less. It's ppl who do things like entering into a natty PL comp when they've been juicing for years but come off like it's JUST hard work, strategy, discipline, and genetic potential...cough* cough* Dan Green cough*. Some food for thought as we continue on this conversation. I would love to hear Jarred's perspective on this too. I personally know someone who's worked with SF guys and anabolic substances are pretty popular with them too. Makes sense when you have guys who can push themselves that hard for 24 hours and do it again the next day with no rest or recovery. Once again, not condoning it just throwing that out there.
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#34 Jumper

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 10:46 AM

It's good to voice these things. I'm with Vector in the sense that what other people think of you, is none of your business.
Besides...I'm too busy to worry about that :)
Effectively it's just the same as the internal vs external rotation debate...there is significant research and proof that both work. Just comes down to preference.
Unfortunately we had a young fella (17) die of a heart attack while working out at a local gym a few years back. The media tried to blame it on a preworkout he had just taken. 17 is far too young to die, but I highly doubt the preworkout was to blame. I certainly have consumed my fair share of caffeine and related products, but it's certainly food for thought.
Just basic questions for the individual, really.
Do I need it?
Will it work?
How will it effect me?
Do they have grape flavour?
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Does it hurt? Good. Get it done.

#35 Vector300

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 04:04 PM

It's good to voice these things. I'm with Vector in the sense that what other people think of you, is none of your business.
Besides...I'm too busy to worry about that :)
Effectively it's just the same as the internal vs external rotation debate...there is significant research and proof that both work. Just comes down to preference.
Unfortunately we had a young fella (17) die of a heart attack while working out at a local gym a few years back. The media tried to blame it on a preworkout he had just taken. 17 is far too young to die, but I highly doubt the preworkout was to blame. I certainly have consumed my fair share of caffeine and related products, but it's certainly food for thought.
Just basic questions for the individual, really.
Do I need it?
Will it work?
How will it effect me?
Do they have grape flavour?

Good input J! And yes by far the most important question is : do they have grape flavor (not flavoUr...jeez)? If I have to drink one more "fruit punch" anything I will murder more than just my barbell. Of course the other issue at hand is (which Vida talked about): it's perfectly acceptable for us to stuff our faces with trans fats and mysterious meats, kill every brain cell with fermented wheat juice, and smoke cancer sticks but DO NOT alter your chemical structure with something as twisted and evil as PEDs!

Jumper - what's the legality of things like this (AAS/PH/etc.) down under?

Do you guys and gals think we should create a separate topic for this entirely? Open to suggestions.

As a side note does anyone here have info/insight on SARMs? I ask because two of my finances bros who both got out of the USMC this summer, bout two months apart from each other, were asking me my thoughts on it and I had to tell em I knew nothing! Apparently it's the new hot thing after prohormones were banned (well technically banned) and it's suppose to have PH like strength and performance results with very little to no side effects. All that's suggested is an OTC PCT. Now they both were on some sort of SARM, not sure which, before they got out and apparently were making impressive gains. Of course they're also total "brahs" and care more bout their bench then anything else...the one doesn't even squat anymore because of "lower back" issue. I call bunk but that's me. So I take everything from them with a grain of salt.
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#36 VidaMD

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 06:06 PM

Sorry V - never heard of it.  I'm a bit of a hermit though - I do love the "I don't squat due to back problems" when proper squatting would probably do them a world of good.


Strong people are harder to kill than weak people and are more useful in general - Mark Rippetoe


#37 Vector300

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 06:26 PM

Sorry V - never heard of it. I'm a bit of a hermit though - I do love the "I don't squat due to back problems" when proper squatting would probably do them a world of good.

One of my favorite "fixes" for a bad back is a session of heavy squats! I'm serial. I'll see what I can pull up on it.

*actually I found a very helpful resource from PricePlow:

https://blog.priceplow.com/sarms

Good info while still remaining unbiased like most others I've come across.

#38 Vector300

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 06:47 PM

And to play devils advocate here's another entry explaining why they're awesome for you...literally, haha. Of course w/ studies to back it up.

http://blog.chaosand...iously-awesome/

#39 VidaMD

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 08:51 PM

And to play devils advocate here's another entry explaining why they're awesome for you...literally, haha. Of course w/ studies to back it up.

http://blog.chaosand...iously-awesome/

Dude, I love that Chaos and Pain guy - sucks he had to take the porn out of his blog.  Some of the crap he comes up with is just plain wrong....


Strong people are harder to kill than weak people and are more useful in general - Mark Rippetoe


#40 Stu

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 10:16 PM

This is a great post . I've got some learning to do here .


Sua Sponte ! Now Get off my lawn ! :angry:




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